John Williams and Sky Discussion Board >> Bremen


Bremen

John Williams and Sky Discussion Board > Sky >

Message/Author

Anonymous posted on Saturday, 11 June, 2005 - 08:53 am

Interesting you should ask about Sky live in Bremen - 1979. You obviously aren't looking hard enough!!! Take a look at THIS

With a bit of luck the various copyright holders will eventually release all of their concerts on dvd – hopefully before I’m in a grave. I’ve just got hold of a laserdisc of Sky at Westminster Abbey and am trying to make a super clean dvd (or pair of dvd’s – 6Gb file size so far) out of it.

It’s about time the BBC made their archives public so that stuff like this isn’t lost forever – after all we’ve already paid for the contents.

By the way, if you’re missing any of Sky’s unobtainable tracks/singles take a look on eDonkey……

Hope this helps.

Richard posted on Saturday, 11 June, 2005 - 12:20 pm

BLOODY HELL!

I think I speak for all of us when I say that this is very good news!

Thanks, Anonymous!

(I'm going to have to rethink the arrangement of the main albums page 'cos this is going to be the 17th item, 17 being a very bad number to divide up)

(Anonymous posted his message in the eBay thread, but I felt it deserved a topic of its own so I moved it...)

Myke posted on Sunday, 12 June, 2005 - 02:56 pm

I've gone and pre-ordered this disk after seeing this post! Out in the second half of July for Ł11:99 with free postage.

It's not that I haven't heard any of the tracks before, 'cos I have. Instead the interest for me is in seeing them playing live in an early form, with Francis Monkman in the band who I've never seen playing at all. Looking forward to it!

Chris posted on Monday, 13 June, 2005 - 02:46 pm

Thanks 'anonymous' -- this is INCREDIBLE NEWS! I shall be getting a copy!

By the way, I have just got back from a weekend away in Nottingham (staying with an old friend who is also a sky fan) and we had exactly the same conversation about the BBC making their archive available (via the internet or interactive TV) at a price. I wouldn't mind paying a few quid to their commercial arm if it meant having access to the millions of hours worth of stuff that must be languishing in their vaults!

Thanks again for the info regarding the elusive Bremen gig. I shall slap myself on the wrist for not having looked hard enough! Then I shall be buying a copy!!!!

Cheers!

Chris

Colin posted on Monday, 13 June, 2005 - 09:27 pm

This is great news indeed.
Does anybody know the exact venue in Bremen?
Also is there a definitive tour archive page anywhere and dare I say bootlegs on this forum?

Cheers

Colin

Chris posted on Monday, 13 June, 2005 - 09:34 pm

P.S.

Has anyone else noticed that the track listing is slightly different to the version that did the rounds on various ITV stations in 1980/1981. As some of you will know, I have an audio recording of this programme, taped off the TV at the time. I am assuming that it was recorded at the same gig.

The track listing for this was:

1. Westway
2. Danza
3. Cavatina
4. Cannonball
5. Dance of the Little Fairies
6. Carillon
7. Where Opposites Meet 1-5

By substituting Dance... for Gymnopedie No.1 we have the first release of a live version of this track, plus we have the entire first album performed live.

Anyway, needless to say, this is the DVD release that I am most looking forward to this year. A dream come true. Let's hope this is a good omen and that the 1980 Hammy Odeon gig will be next...

Chris

Tricky posted on Wednesday, 15 June, 2005 - 05:32 pm

I'm Anonymous no longer! The trouble is there are at least 2 other Richards on this site which makes things tricky - so Tricky it is.

I've been trying (without success) to find out who's releasing it. If anyone knows can you please post it? We might be able to look at their other stuff.

I'm also wondering why the dvd's got a 1980 date on it. Did they actually perform in Bremen in September/October 1980 on their first European tour?

I suspect we won't get an answer to either of these until the dvd arrives on our doorsteps!

Richard posted on Wednesday, 15 June, 2005 - 06:42 pm

Hi Tricky. Welcome aboard! And what a welcome gift!

As far as I'm aware, I'm the only Richard who's posted as such. You may have got confused because as this is my baby and I'm technically in charge, my surname appears whenever I login as the Big Bad Mod, but I only use my first name when posting as a "user". (That at least was my intent; I don't know if it was too subtle for anyone to get the hint). :-)

To avoid further confusion, unless you want to remain Tricky (personally, I abhore all abreviations of my given name, I don't know what your own view is), I will, from my next post, use my full name whenever using the board.

Heck, we've already got at least two Mikes and we had at least two Chrises on the old forum. If they can manage, I'm sure we can. :-)

Colin posted on Wednesday, 15 June, 2005 - 07:03 pm

I'm pretty sure that this would be recorded from the German (Bremen) TV show called Musikladen. A vast amount of rock bands have featured on this show, ranging from Blondie to David Bowie.
Sky did feature on this show in 1980, so it all seems to tie up.

Colin

Bill posted on Wednesday, 15 June, 2005 - 09:30 pm

Richard: "I abhore all abreviations of my given name"

I had a similar problem. At school, I was called "Wullie", Scottish for "Willie", with the same anatomical connotation.

When I went to University my English colleagues could only manage "Willie" so I had to become "Bill".

Richard Sliwa posted on Wednesday, 15 June, 2005 - 10:06 pm

Colin: I expect we'll find out next month. I'm hoping, at least, that the DVD will include details of exactly when it was recorded.

As I've said in the past, the biggest hole in my Sky knowledge (not that I have that many) :-) is details of the European and Aussie tours and I don't know exactly when they played Bremen. However, the running order indicates a pre-second album gig, and thus this is presumably the "test" gig from before the first album was released (considering the first European tour wasn't until autumn 1980, when the gig DEFINITELY would have included Toccata, seeing as the single had been a hit that summer). I'm assuming it wasn't broadcast until 1980, hence the date. Oh well, only five weeks to go (yes, I AM counting!) before we should all get our parcels from Play (if we're lucky, they might send them out as soon as they get the stock, which I know Play have done in the past, which means we may get them a few days earlier).

Bill (or should that be William?),

Firstly, what on earth is going on with me today? How on EARTH did I manage to mis-spell two fairly basic words (abhore??? abreviation???) - I'm off to bash my head against the wall. It might get my brain working again...

As to names, a "colleague" at my very first "official" school holiday job (who, as it happens, was born on the same day I was, and in the same hospital!) insisted on calling me "Dick" all the time, knowing full well that I hated it. That guy is the one and only person who has ever had the displeasure of being hit in the face with my fist... (let that be a warning to the world!)

Chris posted on Wednesday, 15 June, 2005 - 10:28 pm

I would tend to agree with Richard, in that this is probably a pre-first album gig. The track listing and the relatively short length of the set seems to support this. When they undertook fullscale tours, the set list was, of course, much longer. I would be surprised if anyone looking to release such a live recording would then cut half of it out! Having said that, the set list does differ in one respect from the one that was broadcast back in the early 80s, so maybe we are all in for a surprise? Still, who cares? If we get a live performance from the mk. 1 line-up (at long last!), it'll be well worth the wait!

By the way, Colin, I believe the gig was recorded in a nightclub or some such similar venue. I was under the impression that it had been recorded by 'Beat Club' (they did a 'Curved Air' special some years earlier, I think). But perhaps Beat Club was no more by 1979/80 and so Musikladen may have been its successor? Or maybe I have got my wires crossed!

Either way, yes, I think Richard speaks for all of us when he says, that this is very good news!

Roll on 25th July!

Christopher

(sorry, couldn't resist that! - I tend only to be referred to by my full name when I'm being told off! Enough said about that! Otherwise, like myself, most people are usually too lazy to add the 'topher' when talking to me! I have no idea why or when I began to refer to myself as 'Chris' - but it has now kind of stuck. So Chris, Christopher and a variety of less complimentary sobriquets - I'll answer to them all...)

Chris posted on Wednesday, 15 June, 2005 - 10:32 pm

P.S. Did they just do the one 'test' gig prior to the release of the first album? I had wrongly assumed it had been part of a short tour. I suppose the gig was in Germany because they were signed to a German label? Was Ariola German? If so, this DVD presents us with sky's first ever live performance! Another good reason to buy it!

'topher.

Richard Sliwa posted on Thursday, 16 June, 2005 - 12:52 am

How'about "toph" (or "toff"), Cris? If you're chopping a bit off the beginning, may as well chop a bit off the end! :-)

As far as I'm aware, they did one test gig before releasing the first album, and they did it in Bremen. Yes, Ariola was/is a German company (now part of the BMG empire, I think it's disappeared as a label in its own right), and I suspect that there is a connection.

I suspect (this is pure speculation on my part) that another is that they tested their live performance in Germany rather than a UK club (Ronnie Scott's probably would've been a god place, f'rinstance) because

a) if they embarassed themselves, it wouldn't have been in front of people they know, which would probably have included the cream of London's music biz. That's not quite as stupid or trite as it sounds.

b) Prog Rock/"fusion", etc., always had a big following in Germany, arguably bigger than in the UK. I've often thought about why this would be, and one of my theories (stupid as it may sound) is that being largely instrumental, at a time when Germans weren't (yet) learning English as a matter of course in school, they could listen to rock music without having to worry about understanding the words.

Incidentally, the "embarrass themselves" comment includes the fact that I know that the band had a major concern about mixing JW's and FM's acoustic instruments (harpsicords can be quieter than acoustic guitars)with KP's and HF's electric ones, not to mention the noise of TF bashing at the drums, completely live (it's easy enough in a studio, but live in a big hall isn't the same thing, and they didn't have some of the technology we have now).

So the happy coincidence of having a German label who doubtless wanted to show the company wigwigs that not only had they nabbed the world's most successful classical guitarist, but he was doing something highly unusual, together with escaping the microscope of the London music biz, imposed its own solution...

Indeed, if my assumptions about this recording are correct, then this is indeed the very first time Sky played in public, which is what makes it such a MUST have item (not that I'd have to think twice about buying any DVD which featured as little as a clip of the band). :-)

Richard Sliwa posted on Thursday, 16 June, 2005 - 01:02 am

Incidentally....

Where do I put it?

What I mean (get your minds out of the gutter, guys!) is I'm going to need to add this to the albums page of the site (http://plum.cream.org/sky/albums.htm). Apart from what I mentioned before, about this being the 17th item (I've got a way around that which you'll discover in due course!), where do I put it order-wise?

At the moment, everything is in chronological order of release, which happily coincides with the order of production. But do I put this one at the end (latest release) or at the beginning (first production)?

Whilst not an earth-shatteringly important one, that is, however, a serious question and I'd like your input (basically, I can't make my mind up).

Chris posted on Thursday, 16 June, 2005 - 10:43 am

Richard,

Would it be worth putting it in a separate 'audio/visual' section? This way it could come third after 'sky live at Westminster Abbey' video and laser disc and 'sky live in Nottingham' DVD. OK, it would not be in chronological order, but it would be in production order and in a separate, relevant section? Just a thought, as it's not, strictly speaking, an 'album'. This is what I would be tempted to do. Mind you, I've been 'tempted' to do a lot of things in my time, occasionally with disastrous results, so maybe you'd be better going with your own instincts!!!

Tricky posted on Thursday, 16 June, 2005 - 12:31 pm

Hmmm.... I Used to be called tricky when I was a youngster (full name Richard Soponski), which eventually changed to Richard and just about every convolution (1st BIG WORD OF THE DAY) of my full name that you can think of - usually not complimentary. However, when I got a job as a, ahem "Senior Technician in charge of Quality Assurance" the nickname came back because foremen and managers would always try to hide something from me - almost always unsuccessfully. (heh, heh, heh!)

Richard, Chris at least is still referring to you as "Richard". To avoid any confusion and because I don't mind it will probably be best if I stick to Trickey. After all, I may surprise everyone with another discovery - so what better a nickname?

Here's a nice little poser. (I've asked Myke the same thing but It's a bit soon for a reply) Some time ago, before the likes of ebay & amazon existed, I was trying to download Sky mp3's off KaZaA. One of the files that came up, purporting (2nd BIG WORD OF THE DAY) to be from them, was called "Pirate's Dance". It's a pretty good instrumental track but I can't find any reference to it - or any other info (no tags). It probably has no connection to the Sky we know.

It's confusing when you listen to it. It's got Sky's attributes plus some stuff that I think could only come out of a more modern synthesizer.

Anyone ever heard of it?

Bill posted on Thursday, 16 June, 2005 - 01:18 pm

3rd BIG WORD OF THE DAY: proctalgia.

Very useful word. Go and look it up! :-)

Tricky posted on Thursday, 16 June, 2005 - 01:35 pm

Nice one:-):-):-) (I had to go on the internet fot that one) and very apt (small word) because I always seem to remember something I should have put in a post after I've posted it and I also notice I've misspelled my own nickname - and this may not be the right place for this post. More coffee is needed.

Besides the questionable "Pirate's Dance" I also got "Sky - Live 1979 (London) - Cavatina.mp3", "Sky - Live 1980 (Venue?) - Natalia (Criolla).mp3" and "Sky - Live 1980 (Venue?) - Paraguayan Waltz (Barios).mp3". There's a bit of background noise - as if they were recorded with a camcorder (what? in 1979-80 ???).

If anyone's interested, email me - or can I post the mp3's here?

Colin posted on Thursday, 16 June, 2005 - 06:07 pm

http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~zechlinm/musikladen/spielliste.fr.html

Ok Sky appeared on 22nd May 1980 to play Toccata. But not a concert.

Maybe it was another show Ohne Filter for example, another German Rock Show.

Richard Sliwa posted on Thursday, 16 June, 2005 - 08:37 pm

Cavatina '79 and Barrios Waltz '80 sound right. Natalia was one of JW's solo pieces in '81, as I recall.

Not necessarily a camcorder, Tricky - more likely a portable tape recorder. I made three tapes like that myself - Birmingham 83, RAH 87 (with the ASMF)and Barbican 92 - (well, I would have if I hadn't given them to Mike B) :-) and the do indeed sound Crap with a capital C.

"Pirate's Dance" dfinitely ain't a Sky piece. One of the great things about the internet is that it's a (more less) even playing field, and anything anyone has to say can get noticed. The downside of that is that 90% of it is rubbish and the vast majority of files floating around are misnamed, mistitled or simply downright wrong.

The title doesn't ring any bells with me, but (a quick Google later), I've discovered YUICHIRO ODA, whose description makes him sound like a Japanese Mike Oldfield of sorts.

see this:

http://www.odastudio.com/producer.asp
There's a track called "Pirate's dance" from 2002 which looks right for what you're saying.

Sounds like something I might be intertested in checking out...

Chris, as for your suggestion about how to divide things up, that's what my plan was going to be anyway! The question still remains, whether I put the new DVD first or last in the video section...

Hmmm... A long word for the day.... How about mellifluousness?

Chris posted on Thursday, 16 June, 2005 - 10:21 pm

Ah, I must be telepathetic (I think that's the right word!!!!).

First or last... I'd suggest you get a coin and toss for it, as, either way, it would be valid. Chronological order or production order? I think that's a decision that only you can make as I don't think, to the website visitors, it will make any difference. As a historical record, either way it would be complete and thorough.

Personally, I would put everything in production order, but indicate clearly when this differs dramatically from the chronological order. That's probably what I would do...

Probably.

Chris

Bill posted on Thursday, 16 June, 2005 - 10:34 pm

"Hmmm... A long word for the day..."

Well, I routinely use the words "spectrophotometrically" and "chromatographically" in my day job.

Can anyone beat that (and I mean words that they routinely use)? :-)

Richard Sliwa posted on Friday, 17 June, 2005 - 12:07 am

OK, Chris, I'm doing what you suggested. Heads it goes first, tails it goes last.

Fishes 10p coin from pocket, tosses into air. Excitement mounts as the coin falls to the floor.

drumroll

Tails. So that's that one settled. Thanks.

Bill,

I'm not sure how many other scientists we have here, and it's the scientific terminology that tends to be formed of long words.
So let's make this clear. Professional jargon/scientific/acamemic words don't count.

I use a lot of very long words routinely, but seeing as my "day job" is translating stuff, most of them aren't in English, so I'm not sure that counts, either...

I have, however, recently had cause to use the longest English dictionary word, antidisestablishmentarianism (just one letter longer than floccinaucinihilipification) in a genuine context and wasn't showing off at the time...

If we're going to continue this amsuing show of oneupmanship, can we please move it somewhere more appropriate (such as the OT topic)?

Chris posted on Friday, 17 June, 2005 - 11:29 am

Richard,

Glad to have been of some assistance. Made up for my humiliating failure in the waveform quiz. By the way, I thought you had split the waveform in two and posted one above the other (hence my wrong assumption that it was quiet-loud-quiet-loud). I now see that it was just one waveform which has been posted twice. Or am I wrong about this? This little piece of enlightenment makes the whole thing a lot easier. Had I have been a bit quicker on the uptake and realised that both waveforms were identical, then I might have guessed the correct track. It's easy to see, when looking at it, that the same 'quiet' bit reoccurs at the end. I shall study the next one more closely -- although I haven't got a copy of Cadmium (if Bill is right) to listen to - so I can see another humiliating failure on the horizon...

Tricky posted on Thursday, 23 June, 2005 - 07:58 pm

I notice that other sites have now begun to list this dvd at the same price but EXCLUDING P&P.

The producer/manufacturer is, apparantly, "Quantum Leap Group Limited" (www.qleap.co.uk). They don't however list this dvd. Before I insult them extensively, I'll email them to see if they have plans to produce any other Sky concerts.....

Chris posted on Thursday, 23 June, 2005 - 08:38 pm

Good idea. Maybe we should all email them in late July, telling them how much we all enjoyed the Bremen DVD and suggesting a) sky Live at Hammersmith Odeon and b) sky Live at Westminster Abbey. There is also the Drury Lane Christmas gig from 1983 and the Night Music programme from 82 - these last two might make a good combined release as they are comparatively short. As extras, maybe they could include all the odds and ends such as TV appearances on the Val Doonican Show, etc... Although this, of course, would require the BBC to play ball and they seem to be reluctant, according to one or two messages on the old forum. Still, they did see fit to bring back Doctor Who after 16 years, so maybe anything is possible...

Tricky posted on Thursday, 23 June, 2005 - 09:32 pm

Another good idea.

Aaahhhh, the BBC. I've tried contacting the BBC Archives dept. before - but they're only willing to deal with "Corporate Enquiries". Individuals need not apply - despite the fact that we pay their wages - Argh!

I can understand their attitude being applicable 10 years ago, but in these days of "a computer in every home", "fast cheap broadband connections", "micro payments via Paypal" and many more reasons I could whinge about, their reasoning isn't valid any more. Consider a website where the potentially "Non Economically Viable" stuff could simply be downloaded or if you wanted it on CD/DVD, purchased for a nominal sum. Mind you, there could be some red faces about at the Sky downloads. I've had queries from some P2P users in unusual dictatorships asking for Sky music etc. There are more about than we think!

Bill posted on Thursday, 23 June, 2005 - 10:08 pm

What's P2P?

There may be copyright difficulties with some of the archive video (although I'm sure that is often only an excuse).

One thing I always regret missing is Sky doing "Toccata" on "Top of the Pops". (I was in the bath and my wife only mentioned it afterwards!)

I know someone who works with the BBC on restoring archive material. I'll have a word...

Tricky posted on Friday, 24 June, 2005 - 10:36 am

P2P. A big subject is this. "Peer to peer networking". More popularly called file sharing. With the right software any computer connected to the internet can see and download the files someone else specifies on their computer. You decide what you want others to see. Most of the software lets you exchange messages etc, in real time, with several people simultaneously - no email needed. It's a lot cheper and easier than than juggling several phones when making international phone calls.

The entertainment and software industries hate it because it makes mp3, mpeg and software sharing easy - and virtually untraceable. There have been prosecutions over it. As you might expect, it's also full of porn, viruses, adware, spyware etc. You have to take care. They've tried to make it illegal in the United States.

Here's an nice example of P2P use. "Twin Peaks" ran to 2 TV series - but only season 1 was released worldwide on dvd. For some reason arguments broke out over copyright/distribution rights/production rights etc. The companies involved picked up their marbles and went sulking in corners. After waiting for a dvd around 20 years someone decided to get what he/she could and share it on P2P. It's everywhere now. And the producers ??? - they're still sulking in corners losing revenue. Is this illegal? Probably - but none of the companies is likely to prosecute in case another company eventually gets sole rights and they have to pay everything back.

Ludicrous? Definitely! I leave the moralising up to you!

I think this should stop here or Richard will have to get more web space!!

Tricky posted on Friday, 24 June, 2005 - 12:40 pm

One last point on P2P (I always forget something!) The network can be as public or private as you like. A group of, let's say, a dozen or so could set up a private network to (coughing furiously!) share (cough!) files (cough, cough!). No need for email attachments, (cough!) discs (cough!) through the post etc!

Enough said!

Chris posted on Friday, 24 June, 2005 - 01:56 pm

Sounds like you need to buy some cough medicine, Tricky!

Although it wasn't addressed to me, I found the P2P explanation very interesting. I would have guessed that it stood for Person to Person - but would have had no idea what it meant.

By the way, can I just thank you for pointing me (and a few others, perhaps?) in the direction of Play.com - not a website I have ever visited before. I have just been brousing their on-line catalogue and am mightily impressed with their list of titles and the prices. Apart from the obvious sky release, I was interested in the forthcoming Outer Limits and Thriller DVD box sets. I can see myself putting some business their way in the not too distant future...

Bill posted on Friday, 24 June, 2005 - 02:20 pm

I am usually unimpressed by play.com's range. I went there because people raved about how cheap it was but they rarely had the titles I wanted. However, they do have other stuff! :-)

Do you realise that, by buying from them, you are denying VAT to the government!

Shame!

Chris posted on Friday, 24 June, 2005 - 06:35 pm

No, Bill, I didn't! (And they spend our taxes so wisely, don't they... Oops, better not go down that road!)

By the way, forgot to mention; sky performing Toccata on Top of the Pops...

I remember it well. It was during the school holidays in either April or May 1980. I was at home, lying on my bed reading either the latest issue of Doctor Who Weekly or The Professionals magazine. Even then I was a lad of discerning taste! Anyway, the TV was on in the background and I suddenly heard the opening notes and boy did I look up and take notice!!!! Up until then (and I'm being honest here), The Shadows had been the only band that had ever impressed me. But I was blown away! I was a sky fan from that moment on...

A friend of mine has this particular TOTP performance on DVD, courtesy of a repeat showing on UK Gold. It's just as I remember it, but the piece fades out just after the middle drum break. I can't remember if it did this on the original broadcast or if it was edited for the 'Best of' TOTP programme in which it was repeated. Either way, great to see again. But then, we've got the Bremen gig to look forward to (only four weeks to go!) and this is something that I've waited almost 25 years to see again...

Tricky posted on Friday, 24 June, 2005 - 07:45 pm

I have a list of sites I regularly trawl:-

http://www.amazon.co.uk
http://www.bbcshop.com (damn them for not opening their archives)
http://www.cultstores.co.uk (hmmm...)
http://www.dvd.co.uk
http://www.play.com (excellent site… at the moment)
http://www.caiman.com (a US site)

The last one uses Amazon as its advertising arm. It's the only one I have come across that lists a dvd of Bruno Bozzetto's Allegro Non Troppo at a reasonable price. You may remeber this one - it's cartoon sequences usimg classical background music. The most memorable one is "Coke Evolution" depicting the evolution of life on earth, starting from an aliens discarded coke bottle, using Ravel's Bolero as the background music. I still like it (small things...)

Sadly it doesn't list Classic Rock Legends or the Bremen concert. It seems to cater mainly for the US market - and they have no taste over there (Controversial!). Speaking of taste and VAT, where's that wine....

Bill posted on Friday, 24 June, 2005 - 09:22 pm

Play.com is based in Jersey so there's no VAT on the prices, which is why it's cheap!

Re: www.caiman.com
Unfortunately, more and more companies (e.g., Borders, Barnes & Noble) are using Amazon so shopping around (for books) doesn't always work.

Sorry. Off-topic.

Tricky posted on Saturday, 25 June, 2005 - 09:55 am

Also off-topic (head hanging in shame).

VAT isn't payable on imported items with a value of Ł18 or less - at the moment. If you're buying several items from play.com or caiman.com you're better off making individual orders.

As regards caiman's promised delivery dates - don't believe them. They're generally much faster. I've receied stuff 2 DAYS after ordering - and yes, it was airmailed!

Tricky posted on Monday, 27 June, 2005 - 06:46 pm

Phew! As I said in an earlier post, I’d try to contact the producers of the Bremen dvd, Quantum Leap Group Limited, to see if there were to be any more Sky releases. Here is the unedited result – including my syntax errors. (I’ve also finally decided to enable my speling chzeqer)

My original email (Read to the tune of - Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairies)

> Hello,
> I have pre-ordered a dvd:- "Sky Live In Concert" Recorded live in Bremen,
Germany, 1980 which I think you are producing. However it isn't listed on
the website, so I apologise if I've got it wrong.
>
> If I'm right, could you please tell me if you have plans to produce any
other dvd's such as "Sky at Westminster Abbey" or music cd's of this group?
>
> Yours sincerely,
> Richard Soponski

The reply (Read to the theme tune of - 2001: A Space Odyssey)

HI Richard
The title is released 25th July, Cat number QLDVD6250. Will be on our site
this week.
We are always looking for good product and would welcome any more Sky
titles, they are however hard to find.
If you can help us track down the rights holder's of any footage or
concerts, we will look to buy the rights and get the title into the market
place.
Regards
Gary peet
Director

So, it’s down to us. Apart from a possible rash of new threads, any leads / ideas anyone?
(As the BBC seem unwilling to deal with any but corporate enquiries, should we form one?

)

Chris posted on Monday, 27 June, 2005 - 08:56 pm

I just can't think of any other possibilities other than the BBC or their commercial arm, BBC Worldwide. The only other full length sky concerts that I am aware of are the aformentioned sky Live at Westminster Abbey and, of course, sky Live at the Hammersmith Odeon. Of the two, I would be most interested in the latter. I know that a Dutch company made a video for 'Toccata' (or at least, that is what I am led to believe), so maybe that would be worth pursuing? I have no other details on this, but I have a feeling that Richard may have?!!!

Anyway, I've just bought a new DVD player (oh, all right, a 2nd hand one off a friend for a tenner!), so I am all set for July 25th!!! Can't wait... :o)

Chris

Bill posted on Monday, 27 June, 2005 - 09:18 pm

"As the BBC seem unwilling to deal with any but corporate enquiries, should we form one?"

This is a bit like what happened with other fan, sorry, enthusiast groups, such as "Six of One" (the Prisoner Appreciation Society). There is now a pile of Prisoner merchandise, including soundtracks CDs and the whole series on DVD.

Would there be any mileage in an official or unofficial club? The Sky Music Enthusiasts Group (for all you red Dwarf fans out there)?

Richard posted on Tuesday, 28 June, 2005 - 02:27 am

Because of what the Red-Dwarf-inspired acronym actually means, I'm a bit reluctant to consider it. :-)

As for setting up a limited company, I'm not so sure, either. Even if it were to help us get material out of the BBC...

Oh, and Chris, your feeling is right: I have a copy of that video clip and it's distinctly embarassing. A huge amount of silly grinning all around and Tris in an extremely tight t-shirt is more than anyone should be forced to watch. :-)

Chris posted on Tuesday, 28 June, 2005 - 12:57 pm

OK, Richard, on your advice, I shall scrub that from my list of must-sees!

Mind you, I am also led to believe that the Steve Gray line-up also made at least two videos (were these for Masquerade and one of the tracks off sky3?). Surely by this point Tristan had bought a new T-shirt and the guys had stopped grinning?

Right, on that note I shall smeg-off...

Chris

Jason posted on Tuesday, 12 July, 2005 - 04:56 am

Hi - I live in Australia and would love to be able to buy a copy of the Bremen DVD. However, according to play.com they do not yet ship to Australia - is there anywhere else I can purchase the DVD from??

Tricky posted on Tuesday, 12 July, 2005 - 10:47 am

Click on www.qleap.co.uk It will take you to the Quantum Leap website. Click on - "on-line catalog", "VIDEO catalogue" (yes - they're mixing US and UK type spelling) then use the quick search for "SKY". It should be the 3rd item "Sky Live in concert, Live from Germany 1980".
After that it's straight online shopping. Australia's listed as a delivery destination. You owe me a beer:-)

Jason posted on Tuesday, 12 July, 2005 - 01:02 pm

Make that two beers!! Thanks Tricky - the order has been placed!

Myke posted on Wednesday, 13 July, 2005 - 07:54 am

Richard, Congrats on getting the info together for the DVD in Bremen, it made interesting reading. Like many others I have ordered the disk myself. I watched the clip you provided without any problems, but have a query. It appeared to be somewhat blurred, or soft and fuzzy. Is that what the DVD is like or do you think it's an artefact from making the clip?

Richard posted on Wednesday, 13 July, 2005 - 12:09 pm

The DVD isn't perfect, but it's as good as one could expect from VHS (Quantum admitted that was the source). In other words, it's not quite on a par with your conversion of the WA gig (from LD).

Problems with the clip on the site are down to issues I'm having with this computer (which have been around for some time; I really should do something about it!) and the fact that the clip went through three different conversions before ending up in its current form (that was my very first attempt at ripping from DVD and I need to do some more tests before being confident that I know what I'm doing).

When I get around to making more clips in one format or another, I'll be re-doing that one. I'm a bit busy for the next week or so but I might be able to put something up for the official release on the 25th.

Myke posted on Thursday, 14 July, 2005 - 04:05 pm

Okey-dokey, look forward to that. If you need a hand in the future converting clips to different formats let me know, I'd be happy to take some of the workload off you if you wanted. I've got some experience of video compressions right down to files small enough to be viewed on a PDA, which look fairly good, so let me know any time.

Tricky posted on Friday, 22 July, 2005 - 11:27 am

E-mail from Play.com 21/07/05 "Your order for Sky: Live In Concert has been posted. Please allow 3-5 days delivery" Just too late for the weekend. Oh well....

Jason posted on Monday, 25 July, 2005 - 02:22 am

Hey - guess what - my copy of the Bremen gig arrived on Wednesday 20th July (in Australia) - its great! Finally I got to see Francis playing keyboards with Sky!

Tricky posted on Monday, 25 July, 2005 - 12:50 pm

Mine's just arrived. The postie's fingers have now got friction burns. Not even had a chance to open the wrapper yet. Good isn't it - the routing to me is London to Jersey to Manchester (a couple of hundred miles), and it takes five days more than sending it a few thousand miles to Aussie!. The wrapper's coming off with my other hand as I type......

CKD posted on Monday, 25 July, 2005 - 01:14 pm

We are waiting, with bated breath, for your review...

Chris posted on Monday, 25 July, 2005 - 01:16 pm

Whoops, those are my initials! I meant Chris!!!!!

Tricky posted on Monday, 25 July, 2005 - 05:43 pm

Ahhhhh. I’ve just spent a nice relaxing afternoon watching the Bremen dvd. I won’t spoil the plot (much!) except to mention glitterballs and early 80’s haircuts. Some of the audience have smiles, while others look like a strict jury in a murder case – still, you have to remember where the concert was performed ;-) No-one is holding a stein though!

I can’t finish my personal review of this without commenting on the quality. (I’ve mentioned somewhere I used to be a b*****d in charge of Quality Control). As QL has already pointed out to Richard, the source was from VHS (20+ years old?) – so don’t expect “Disney 2 months old” crispness. There is a bit of a slow red flicker (on my copy) and the bass is too high (the audio is easily compensated for on your dvd player &/or TV), but ANY old VHS tape would exhibit this – and you have to “work with what you’ve got” The red flicker is not due to an excess of red, rather a fading (magnetic degradation of the VHS tape) of the other colours. You have to put up with one or the other. This could only ever be corrected with custom hardware (I used to work in the electronics industry too) - not software, or by correcting the digital file frame by frame - either way would be very, very, very expensive.

Still, the flaws (in my opinion) add to the 80’s authenticity.

As an aside, I’ve been working (in my spare time) on a bit of software that will display a video file instead of wallpaper (i.e. under the icons) on any computer running Windows 2000 or later. I know that Radeon All In Wonder graphics cards can be used to do this, but I want it to work with ANY graphics card and also use CD/DVD drives as the video source. I’ve got it to the point where everything works, but it flickers a bit. It would be nice to have a Sky concert playing as the desktop (whilst trying to do some work!!)

Finally, before you all accuse me of knowitallism, I reckon the band have embiggened the dvd with a sacriliciously cromulent performance....

Tricky posted on Monday, 25 July, 2005 - 10:33 pm

I can’t resist adding another couple of comments. (3rd viewing). I can’t remember exactly where or when I’d seen Francis Monkman perform with Sky before, but as soon as I saw him the memories came back. I must have seen Sky’s earliest shows ever. (That shows my age)

It’s nice to see real musicians again, warts and all, who don’t rely on a ton of make-up, a choreographer, a hairstylist and a karaoke machine. You had to rely on your talent in those days - no “music videos” edited using hundreds of man-hours to cover up an otherwise artless act. FM is well named (watch that ironic camera angle) – no insult intended, Francis:-)

(Even my kids have noticed that today’s “music” is either unoriginal – or rubbish. Is it any wonder when a mobile phone ringtone reaches the so-called “number one spot”)

Jason posted on Tuesday, 26 July, 2005 - 01:51 am

I especially enjoyed watching them perform 'Where Opposites Meet' - almost identical to the studio version. I love John Williams’s reaction at the end of 'Opposites' giving the rest of the band the 'Thumbs Up' as if to say - "We did it guys!"

Now we need to find a gig with them performing SKY 2 material (with FM playing of course!)

I was quite surprised by the audience reaction - some were enjoying it - others were sitting there with their arms crossed looking quite uninterested and even a little annoyed!

Chris posted on Tuesday, 26 July, 2005 - 02:15 am

Perhaps they turned up expecting to see The Nolan Sisters or Boney M.

I tried to find the DVD (this afternoon) in Virgin and HMV, with no luck, so I might order a copy from Play.com - although, by the sound of it, it'd be quicker to go and pick it up from their warehouse than wait for it to be delivered! Now there's a thought...

Bert Monster posted on Tuesday, 26 July, 2005 - 08:39 am

Hello,

Who can send me a DVD copy of the Sky Bremen concert?

please mail me,

Bert Monster,
Hierden
The Netherlands

Tricky posted on Tuesday, 26 July, 2005 - 12:11 pm

Hi, Bert. The answer is already posted above. Click on www.qleap.co.uk It will take you to the Quantum Leap website. Click on - "on-line catalog", "VIDEO catalogue" then use the quick search for "SKY". It should be the 3rd item "Sky Live in concert, Live from Germany 1980".
After that it's straight online shopping. Netherlands is listed as a delivery destination. You also owe me a beer:-)

Jason, I've never been to Germany but the stereotype we have over here is that they tend to be a humourless bunch - the few managers I've met certainly are. The ones that look annoyed probably are because of others talking around them! Plus they have no beer!

Chris, I doubt it will be on the shelves yet - even Amazon hasn't got it listed. QL may have underestimated the interest.

Chris posted on Tuesday, 26 July, 2005 - 04:13 pm

The Dutch, on the other hand, are marvellous people - for a wide variety of reasons. I have some great memories from the Netherlands. Almost brings a tear to my eye thinking about it. Almost.

Just ordered the DVD from play.com (following another fruitless look in Virgin and HMV this afternoon). Would be great if it arrives before the weekend, as a few late night beers in the company of messrs Williams, Peek, Flowers, Monkman and Fry would be great. I can't bl**dy wait!

My drunken review (probably in the early hours, one morning) will follow in due course! Then I'll watch it sober and probably enjoy it even more.

Let's rock...

Tricky posted on Tuesday, 26 July, 2005 - 08:41 pm

I've just hunted around to see who else is listing this. It's popping up on quite a few sites now but www.play.com is still the best deal for the UK because of their inclusion of P&P. www.qleap.co.uk seems to be the best for exports. Most of the other sites are also stating a 7 to 14 day availability delay.

Jason posted on Wednesday, 27 July, 2005 - 12:40 am

I have a question regarding the Bremen concert - was this concert performed before or after the first Sky album was recorded?

Was the Bremen concert their actual first public performance as 'SKY'?

Yes Tricky, there are a few in the audience who look most displeased - I thought it might have been because they were either expecting a more 'classical' concert because of the presence of John Williams or more 'rock & roll'.

Chris posted on Wednesday, 27 July, 2005 - 11:11 am

I would have thought the gig took place after the first album was recorded. I have a feeling that 'sky' was recorded towards the end of 1978 - possibly December. It then took the guys a few months to secure a deal.

On a personal note, I remember first reading about the formation of sky in the summer of 1978. So, again, it is perhaps safe to assume that the first album was recorded shortly thereafter...

Chris

Chris posted on Wednesday, 27 July, 2005 - 11:14 am

P.S. I think the reason for the Bremen 'gig' was to warm up for the spring tour of 1979 and, perhaps, to showcase the album for their record company execs. Either way, they were in the process, I'm sure, of promoting the first album.

I'm sure that Richard will be able to confirm or deny this and add more details...

Chris
(again...)

Chris posted on Friday, 29 July, 2005 - 10:00 am

IT'S ARRIVED!!!!!!!!

And it's only taken 25 years and two days!

Seriously folks; can't complain about the service from play.com. I ordered the DVD at about four o'clock on Tuesday afternoon. It must have been despatched, therefore, on Wednesday (that's when I got the email confirmation that it would take 3-5 days) and here we are, Friday morning, and it's here!

I've just opened it, inserted it into the DVD player and watched 'Westway' - just to check pic and sound quality and for a bit of nostalgia! First time I have seen and heard this since 1980 or 81!!!!

What can I say? Superb! Brought it all flooding back! Picture a bit soft, sound was ace.

So, tonight I have two choices. 1) is to go to a wedding reception. 2) is to stay at home and spend a very enjoyable hour with sky. I think I've decided already.

(And, I suspect, I shall watch the gig more than once!)

I hope I am still sober enough by the end of it to post a report.

Bill D posted on Friday, 29 July, 2005 - 11:02 am

Just got back from holiday on Wednesday to find the DVD waiting and haven't a chance to watch it all. Shouldn't be ungrateful but I am disappointed.

Mastered from VHS? They seemed to have done the best they could with it but surely there is a high-quality tape in the vaults unless it was broadcast live and the VHS was only a safety copy. The latter is unlikely because professional studios didn't use VHS or even S-VHS (which wasn't around then).

I get the impression that the sound isn't quite in sync with picture but it's hard to tell with the fuzzy picture and strange camera cuts.

Also some speed variations are obvious (especially on keyboards). (1978/1979 was before HiFi VHS recording so it would have come from a conventional audio track, not the frequency-modulated recording you get now.) Speed variations like wow and flutter (or even caused by failing batteries on portable equipment) can be corrected by restoration software but I suppose that would have cost money that QL doesn't have.

The picture editing was clearly done live by someone who had no idea what was coming.

Still, it's better than nothing.

BTW, what model is that solid electric that JW was playing?

Bill D posted on Friday, 29 July, 2005 - 08:32 pm

Did you notice that JW has his guitar on his right leg, not the classical style (i.e. on the left, with a footstool)?

Tricky posted on Friday, 29 July, 2005 - 09:18 pm

I'd not noticed that (my other brain cell is under the influence). He must adapt his style for the venue - or maybe it's the wisdom that comes with experience (I'll be polite as I'm there myself!). I've been looking at what looks to be a high quality avi file of the Seville concert, where he uses the classical pose, sometimes one handed when he knows it's possible!

QL’s got me worried. OK, I know the arguments but do you trust any further work? Hobson’s choice?

Bill D posted on Saturday, 30 July, 2005 - 12:28 am

At the moment, QL and others probably feel that there is little incentive (i.e. profit) in spending time and money on (a) tracking down first generation tapes and (b) digital restoration and remastering.

After all, how big is the market?

It's easier to restore audio-only recordings and CDs are cheap to produce now. Hence the vast number of low-selling CDs in the shops.

Not sure if the re-released Sky and Sky2 count there. They're in most of the shops nut I wonder how many people are actually buying them. It's easy to think that a company will only release an item if it expects to make a profit but there are lots of obscure classical CDs that are unlikely to break even.

Chris posted on Saturday, 30 July, 2005 - 01:32 am

Well, it's twenty past one in the morning and I've just watched the Bremen gig for the 2nd time. Actually, some tracks I may have watched more than twice - you'll have to excuse me, my brain cells have been somewhat diluted by something called alcohol.

Impressions:

It's a while since I sat transfixed by a DVD. And tonight was one such occasion.

First time I saw this programme was in the autumn of 1980. I was at boarding school at the time and it was shown by ATV at (well, let's just say well after lights out). I watched it then on an old black and white TV with the sound turned down, so as not to wake up the other two or three lads in the room - whom I assumed to be asleep.

The second time I watched it was in the spring of 1981. I had left school by this point and was at home. It was shown by Yorkshire Television, again late at night, and I watched it in the living room with the TV turned down low so as not to wake up my mum and dad who were asleep in the room above.

Tonight, in my own flat, I watched it with the volume turned up nice and loud!

The memories flooded back. I think some of us have been a little harsh. It looked OK and sounded OK. The editing was not as atrocious as I was expecting and, either by luck or judgement, we got some great shots of the band members at just the right moments. And no, to me, it didn't look like the sound and picture were at all out of sync. There were a couple of worrying moments when what we were seeing on screen did not quite match what we were hearing and I hope this does not indicate that they were miming. But then, there were moments when it was clear that what we were seeing and hearing was live and it would be madness to have a band mime to a recording with miked up instruments. Maybe there was some post-production editing that was a bit off, so to speak.

All in all, I loved it and (slightly fuzzy picture aside), what a thrill to actually own a recording of sky's first ever live show and the only commercially available performence of the mk.1 line-up. I think we should all be grateful and thankful to QL. How did this recording come into their possession, do you suppose? Did they go looking for it or was it offered to them? Either way, a big thank you to them. Well worth the Ł11.99 I paid for it and well worth missing the wedding reception to see. Hell, I'd have missed the actual wedding to have watched this. If I'd been invited... (I know... strange...)

Oh and as a nostalgic footnote. Just to get into the spirit of it and round off the nostalgia-trip in an apt. way... I just watched Where Opposites Meet with the sound turned right down, so as not to disturb my nextdoor neighbour. It could have been 1980 all over again...

Sometimes, wish it was. Roll on the DVD release of the Hammersmith Odeon gig. Can I suggest that we all email QL and suggest it...?

Goodnight, everyone...

Chris again posted on Saturday, 30 July, 2005 - 01:45 am

P.S. Bill, according to the first 1979 sky tour programme, the electric guitar used by JW was a Gibson RD77 Artist. as I know little about guitars (electric and otherwise), I am assuming that this is the solid-body electric that he uses on the Bremen gig and the one to which you are refering.

Richard; maybe you ought to offer to help QL out with the extras if they ever decide to do another sky DVD or re-release this one, as the extras on this are not that hot. The discography is nasty and the band biogs are too short and incomplete to be of any use. And I won't even mention the eroneous nature of the track selection menu!

Tricky posted on Saturday, 30 July, 2005 - 11:20 am

Bill D, (and everyone else) the following extract from a QL e-mail really says it all "let’s see how well this programme does, which will give us a guide to see what sort of budget we will have for any more 'Sky' Programmes". Hmmm... Budget (and slapped wrist).

There are some synch problems, particularly during the transitions. It may be that areas of the vhs were unrecoverable, so had to be covered up - not easy when you can't interrupt a continuous audio track.

Other perceived problems can also depend on your viewing equipment. I've ripped vhs to mpg's and found they look awful on a TFT screen, but quite reasonable on a CRT. In my case I have a 100Hz monster CRT TV which "spoils" you. Anything less than absolutely perfect is an irritation. I've wasted hours trying to get perfect rips, before I finally realised I couldn't. This dvd would probably look very poor on a 60" TFT TV - although that’s pure speculation (can anyone out there prove me wrong?).

Having transferred some vhs to dvd, I know that audio/video synch problems frustratingly, unbelievably, occur. Myke probably knows more about this, but if you want an idea of the full horrors for decent transfers look at Tools for Creating DVD's.

Hmmm... Budget

Chris posted on Saturday, 30 July, 2005 - 12:37 pm

Wide awake and raring to go...

A couple of things.

1) I've just emailed Gary Peet, managing director of QL, and told him how much I enjoyed watching the sky DVD. Have also asked him if he'd consider approaching the BBC regarding the Hammersmith Odeon gig (gave him the original transmission dates). I have also suggested that if they were also to include other items such as appearances on various BBC TV shows from the time, then these 'extras' would make such a DVD even more collectable.

2) About 20 years ago I wrote to Peter Lyster-Todd, sky's manager. I mentioned, amongst other things, the Bremen gig. He replied and said something like, "Ah, the Bremen gig. They made one or two mistakes that night". Those were not his exact words, but more or less. Now then, to my ears, there are no obvious mistakes on the Bremen gig. So, this makes me wonder if they re-recorded the whole thing on audio (to re-stage it would have been too expensive, cameras, lighting, technicians, audience, etc...) so as to 'fix' these mistakes in the post-production editing stage. Maybe the original soundtrack and a second, re-recorded version were mixed and used to make the master sountrack that was applied to the finished programme. This may be why, in some instances, what certain members of the band can be seen doing doesn't quite match what we are seeing. Could this be a possibility, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Either way, I guess, who cares? Seeing it again took me back twenty-five years! And, without a TARDIS, how else can one experience that...?

Myke posted on Saturday, 30 July, 2005 - 01:16 pm

Tricky/Chris:- Indeed I've had some trial and error experience of transferring VHS to DVD, over the last 2 to 3 years I've honed my skills so-to-speak. On the Bedrock gig for instance I think I can actually say I could have done a better job on the transfer from tape myself. The thing that puts me off these older transfers is when the company concerned don't take enough care over the picture itself and you can see large blocky pixellation effects where there isn't enough detail in the picture. I haven't had any problems with video-sound synch problems though, perhaps it's the software I use that helps me out;-

If you want to do it via your PC, then you need a decent analogue capture card, such as a Pinnacle DC10+ or a Dazzle DVC90 USB2 external capture box. Using either Pinnacle Studio v9pro, or PureMotion's EditStudio v5 (my preference), to capture and create your mpg2 files. You can add overlays and titles if you want to at this point. Then use a simple DVD authoring package, such as Ulead's DVD Movie Factory v4 to actually make the disk. The software here for this, need cost no more than Ł100!

When I did the Westminster Abbey gig transfer from Laserdisk, via a composite video signal lead (not digital), I used EditStudio v4 to capture and create the main gig mpeg file. I also applied some filters to improve the contrast and reduce video noise. Then again to create the intro video you see when first playing the disk, overlaid with text from the disk cover. Extra bits like the sleeve notes were also done through EditStudio. Final authoring was with Ulead's software.

For a straight transfer to DVD from VHS without any thrills, buttons, fancy menus or anything like that, you can't do better that use a 'Panasonic HS2 or EB95' hard drive dvd recording vcr machine, while playing the vhs on another decent vcr deck.

Maybe this is of interest to someone out there, but if anyone has any queries on home capture/transfer techniques please feel free to ask me.

Chris posted on Saturday, 30 July, 2005 - 02:40 pm

Strangely enough, my dad has a Panasonic hard drive DVD recorder, so it may be the one you mention. I don't have any plans to use it, for the forseeable future, though.

I've also noticed that, in my last posting, what I meant to say was "...this is why, in some instances, what certain band members can be seen doing doesn't quite match what we are HEARING..." !!!
Obviously I wasn't as wide awake as I thought I was at the time of writing!!!

There are a couple of cymbal crashes, for example, when Tristan is just playing on the closed hi-hat. Plus a moment or two in, I think, Cavatina or Carillon where the paino sounds a bit 'busier' than what we are seeing. I'd love to know the full story behind these apparent discrepancies. I have always been amazed, by the way, at how JW plays both the rhythm and melody parts in Danza at the same time. This, I suspect, is down to pure talent as opposed to any audio overdubbing afterwards!

All in all, I suppose we will all have to be satisfied with what we have and thankful that someone has made this available after so many years. It certainly is odd that only a VHS copy could be found. I'm assuming that it would have original been recorded on either U-Matic or Betacam SB? Maybe these were long since lost and it was someone's domestic copy that was used? By the way, has anyone noticed that the copyright holders are listed as being 'CJ Productions'. Who are, or maybe, who were they? Maybe some investigating might turn up the original tapes? Be great to think that, one day, we could see the performance in its entirety. As Richard has pointed out, I believe, Tristan's Timpani set-up can be seen to the right of the stage, which suggests that 'Tristan's Magic Garden' (amongst others) must have also been performed...

Chris posted on Saturday, 30 July, 2005 - 02:42 pm

P.S. What is a 'paino'?

I think I'd better go back to bed - as my brain is obviously still asleep!!!!!

Bill D posted on Sunday, 31 July, 2005 - 01:56 am

ˇ°1980ˇ¦ shown by ATVˇ¦1981ˇ¦ shown by Yorkshire Televisionˇ±
I was a Sky fan from the start and attended their Glasgow gig on the first tour but I never saw this on TV. I guess BBC Scotland and STV decided not to show it up here.

ˇ°...madness to have a band mime to a recording with miked up instruments...ˇ±
All the instruments, apart from the drums, were electric (including JWˇŻs ˇ°classcialˇ± Ovation). I don't remember (at this time of the morning) whether or not the amps were miked or direct-injected.

ˇ°the electric guitar used by JW was a Gibson RD77 Artistˇ±
I recall that he used a Fender at some Sky gigs. IˇŻd like to have seen that. JW on Stratocaster or Telecaster!

ˇ°to my ears, there are no obvious mistakes on the Bremen gig. So, this makes me wonder if they re-recorded the whole thingˇ±
I saw some minor ˇ°flubsˇ± but nothing serious.

ˇ°I have always been amazed, by the way, at how JW plays both the rhythm and melody parts in Danza at the same timeˇ±
If you think thatˇŻs good, you should listen to JW (or any other good guitarist) play Barrios' ˇ°Un Sueno En La Floresta. You would swear that there are two guitarists playing! I even have a CD of Barrios himself playing it in 1929! All his recordings were done in one take with no possibility for over-dubbing or multi-tracking but he still does the two parts simultaneously.

A friend of mine is a classical guitarist and a big JW fan. When I told him that I had got ˇ°intoˇ± Barrios, he replied: ˇ°Ah, Barrios! Real music!"

Chris posted on Sunday, 31 July, 2005 - 10:03 am

I'd like to think that I'm a bit more awake this morning!

When I said 'miked up', I did of course mean miking up the amps, as I had assumed they had done. It's difficult to say from watching the DVD whether or not they have done this, as most of the amps seem to have guitar stands placed in front of them, which obscures the view somewhat. It's difficult to say, as in some shots it looks like they might be, whereas in others it looks like they are not. The drums are miked, obviously, as is the marimba (is it a marimba?) and FM's harpsichord has a mike positioned over the strings. Would DI leads have come from the front or back sockets of the amp? This might be another way to tell if they have been DI'd or not.

I have a feeling that one of JW's electric guitars (maybe a Gibson) was recently sold on eBay. I really must check out the recording of him playing the Barrios piece you mention.

And, looking back at my previous posting, I see that when I referred to betacam SB, I must have meant betacam SP.

As I say, hopefully I'm a bit more awake this morning...

Tricky posted on Sunday, 31 July, 2005 - 10:04 am

Bill D, 01:56 am ???. You're an early riser! Also, are you having font/keyboard setting problems?

Chris, on the synch/transitions - would the BBC let anyone on work experience handle a camera? - sorry if I've offended anyone (yeah, sure!:-)

Myke, I've figured out my synch problem - it's down to dropped frames on the transfer. VideoStudio + an ATI AIW graphics card must cover these up by shifting the video frames back, whilst leaving the audio track alone. Why do I think this? Because when it happens the audio ALWAYS leads the video. Also, it's easier to fill a "hole" than wait for and duplicate the next frame to fill the resulting 2 "holes" - twice as much processing would be needed as the faulty frame would first be read then discarded etc, etc. (If anyone doesn't get this, dig 2 holes in your garden, throw half of the soil heap away, replicate the remaining soil, then refill both holes to the top. You'll notice the effect even more if you have to take up any paving slabs first;-). Turning off background programs & using ATI's own software gives much better results.

I'm seriously considering getting one of these new fangled DVD recorders (and replacing my horseless carriage). Perhaps a new "Video Editing" topic is needed so we can share our (lack of?) knowledge?

(Anyway, time to recommence the genocidal war in my front ants-nest/toxic waste dump/garden)

Chris posted on Sunday, 31 July, 2005 - 10:15 am

Tricky, re. your BBC query...

These days they probably would - if it saved them paying out a proper wage! Back in the 70s, not sure. Mind you, it's CJ Productions we are talking about here, so you never know...!

I did some work experience with a cable TV company once and, yes, they allowed me to use a camera! Didn't pay me, though. They must have thought that the 'experience' was payment enough...

Bill D posted on Sunday, 31 July, 2005 - 04:49 pm

"You're an early riser!"
Quite the opposite. Late to bed.

"Also, are you having font/keyboard setting problems?"
Yes but I didn't think it showed in the message, apart from the lack of spaces between sentences.

Myke posted on Tuesday, 02 August, 2005 - 05:58 pm

Tricky, I've tried using an ATI-AIW cards in the past, and only had moderate success with them (frame dropping is a definite problem, if it isn't totally happy with your software and hardware setup). Which is why I've always gone back to a seperate independent way of capturing analog video. USB2 is more than fast enough to capture real time analog video of the highest quality (20Mb/s + is possible) and put it back out to another hard drive if you want to. Then it's all down to your software, and it's there that you can correct synch problems, down to milliseconds if you want to. Watch the Westminster dvd I did again and let me know if you can see any synch problems, as I used the techniques I described before on that.

For straight transfers then I can highly reccomend a Panasonic hard drive dvd recorder. I've used an HS2 model at work for a couple of years, and the encoding at maximum quality (XP=1hr per disk) is superb. Even the 2hr (SP) disk encoding is far better than vhs. Anecdotally I transferred a colleagues Babylon5 collection to disk, and he swore it actually improved the quality somewhat, smoothed it out and the colours seemed richer. It seems Panasonic know what they are doing. At home I use the updated EB95 deck, which with a 160Gb hard drive can store over 30hrs at maximum quality. It is incredibly easy to edit a programme (to remove adverts for instance) and then save it to disk. I'm glad I waited and saved up for one.

Anyone need any help just let me know and I'll be happy to point them in the right direction.

Mike H posted on Wednesday, 10 August, 2005 - 12:37 am

I'm sitting here at Cleveland Airport utterly bored, put Sky into a search engine, and didn't think anyone would have been that interested...fantastic!the memories came flooding back....

I was a mere lad when I met the band and used to go to their houses, just before the launch in '79. I think I still have some of the original white label 'test press' LP's of the original first and second albums signed which they gave me. Spent some happy times recording at Francis Monkman's house, the guys were so generous, and I don't think the musicianship has been matched since!

really glad to see that the DVD is available, good work guys.

Chris posted on Wednesday, 10 August, 2005 - 12:58 pm

Yet another Mike! Welcome to our happy little throng. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your message - what a privilege to have known and worked with them right at the beginning! Incredible! Lucky man!

Roll on the next DVD, whatever and whenever that may be...

Colin posted on Sunday, 18 September, 2005 - 10:11 am

Ok eventually I got Bremen (had to wait to get paid grrr). It's brilliant. Just love the Francis Monkman playing and John is superb.
It's a big pity that there was very little camera work on Herbie. The very first frames on Westway typify the man's skill.

Just one question: Does anyone know what pieces they played between Cannonball and Where Opposites Meet? Clearly there is some missing footage.

Very chuffed
Colin